Heavy Handed Tactics

[Step_7]

Has anyone seen the customised model Mini cushions made to look like your car? Well if you were ever thinking of getting one you're too late.....

http://www.mylittlecar.co.uk/

I certainly don't want to start "BMW Bashing" here of all places but come on.... Her main business was making customised cushions for Mini owners which in no way could be mistaken for a MINI by the people buying them. Do BMW have a PR department or is it just filled with lawyers... :x I know they have a legal right to do this but it just seems so petty.

(Rant over :oops: )

Here's an example of her work and the real thing. 8)





(Sorry for nicking your pics Maverick.... )

[Owen]

I'm sick to death of hearing this 'heavy handed' crap that goes about. MINI owns the MINI brand. Simple as that. Would Toyota like it if every joe soap opened up a 'Toyota' garage, unfranchised, just because it had a large enthusiastic following? Likewise, would Aston Martin like it if someone made unlicensed products & accessories? No.

If you want to use the MINI trademark on your products that resemble the MINI & it's accessories, you must be prepared to offer it to MINI for sale and distrubution. It's akin to making a shirt, stick a Tommy Logo on it, marketing it as Tommy Clothing, and hoping Mr. Hilfigeur is kind enough to let it slide.

It's naturally upsetting that a small, low turnover, one person operation can be affected by this, but as her plush toy is a direct copy of the same toy made by MINI, where do MINI draw the line? Is it with Plush Toys, is it with wheels sold as MINI Genuine Wheels on eBay, or does it get to a stage when someone's making Third Party Airbags, and branding them as MINI?

[Step_7]

but as her plush toy is a direct copy of the same toy made by MINI

But it clearly isn't - she made CUSTOMISED replicas to an owner's individual specification and she didn't make replicas of MINIs, she only offered Minis (and variants), Beetles and VW Campers.

I have looked at the cushions/rucksacks for sale in the MINI accessories catalogue but have always been put off by the fact that they only offer a few colours. If they made one that matched the colours of my car I would buy it from them.

I fully appreciate that any company has to protect its trademarks and intellectual property but can you honestly explain how her creations would affect sales of the similar but not competing MINI branded products?

I've a couple of hypothetical questions for you - If I was to comission an artist to paint a picture of my car (MINI or Mini) would that be an infringement of BMW's trademark? I would be paying someone to create a 2D representaion of a shape which BMW legally own the copyright of. Would it apply to photographs? If I employ a professional photographer to take pictures of the same copyrighted shape is that an infringment?

What this woman was selling was a privately comissioned artistic representation of a specific object owned by an individual.

[Owen]

It's not the representation of the image that's the problem, she has been using the words MINI, Mini and Clubman - which are Trademarks. You can clearly see on her website that her solicitor has told her to say the following :

BMW are the registered proprietors of numerous UK and Community trade marks associated with the Mini including the word marks MINI, MINI COOPER and CLUBMAN. They also own other trade marks including the words RILEY and in addition have registered designs for the shape of the BMW Mini and separately for a toy (model) and a rucksack. The shape of the original Mini (in both 2 and 3 dimensions) is also registered as a BMW trade mark and is licensed for use by them.

No amount of arguing will change those facts, she made a nice product, and it appealed to people, but she made a product, that apart from the colour changes, was identical to MINIs own plush toy, and used the words MINI, Mini and Clubman to describe them. It also has nothing to do with her product affecting MINI's sales. This is an intellectual property issue, one which she infringed.

I've a couple of hypothetical questions for you - If I was to comission an artist to paint a picture of my car (MINI or Mini) would that be an infringement of BMW's trademark? I would be paying someone to create a 2D representaion of a shape which BMW legally own the copyright of. Would it apply to photographs? If I employ a professional photographer to take pictures of the same copyrighted shape is that an infringment?

No it isn't. The creative commons artistic license which most Painters and Photographers use (The license I use for my artwork), allows you to photography, or paint anything in the public domain. It does not allow for you to create a product, copying another company's product, using their trademarked name, and sell medium quantities. The CCAL only allows for small numbers of reproductions to be sold, and as long as you clearly state that it isn't a work by the original owner of the property you're representing.

This has been debated ad nauseum on many MINI and Mini forums. The bottom line is she broke all the rules, she had a great product, and to be honest, I'd have probably bought one too if I'd seen it earlier, but it still doesn't excuse ignorance of copyright, and trademark law.

[Step_7]

You obviously have a better understanding of the law than me but:

From what you're saying I could email her as a private individual and ask her to create a unique artistic representaion in 3D of MY car in "soft sculpture" format and she could sell it to me legally without interference from BMW and its lawyers so long as she doesn't use certain words to describe it?

I would expect to see this glaring gap in the "customised soft sculpture" :wink: market filled in a very short space of time then! If someone words the advertisement carefully enough they could be back in business selling the same product very soon.

I know its been debated on many Mini forums and BMW have been taking a lot of uninformed and particularly rabid flack for their actions but I thought it relevant to bring it up on here due to the more "tolerant" community that exists here and to get a more sensible viewpoint on the whole affair.

[Owen]

From what you're saying I could email her as a private individual and ask her to create a unique artistic representaion in 3D of MY car in "soft sculpture" format and she could sell it to me legally without interference from BMW and its lawyers so long as she doesn't use certain words to describe it?

Absolutely not. There is a precident in place, an existing product that fulfills this role. If there was no plush toy available from MINI to fill this gap, then, she would be able to make replicas as long as she didn't refer to them as MINI, Mini, Clubman, or 3 Series, etc.

I know its been debated on many Mini forums and BMW have been taking a lot of uninformed and particularly rabid flack for their actions

I agree. BMW/MINI are not being a heartless company. They own the Trademark, and are allowed to defend it any which way they seem. Apple are much worse when it comes to defending the iPod for example, and the many clones that the Asian market has tried to sell as the genuine item. This is corporate law, and when you're dealing with a multi-billion euro industry, and product, you must be this strict.

[irlmin]

This old chestnut crops up every now and then , People are very quick to jump on the bandwagon and blame BMW for everything , reality is there are precedents here with mini as Rover ( pre BMW ownership ) took legal action to protect the brand name mini . several 'replica' kit car companies were targeted as were several suppliers of merchandise , its nothing new , lets look at it from the 'real world' side , if Coco Cola found someone making replicas featuring their logo and branding how long before they took action , as with any high profile and valuable brand it has to be protected , MINI , Coke Cola , Pepsi , Apple , Nike , Microsoft , etc etc all global brands , If they allowed ant Tom Dick and Harry to use their 'Brand id ' how long before a precedent was set and opened the gates to wholesale use of the brand names then it would be too late , I think if the protectors of the brand didn't act they would not be doing their job . She also had another option --- ask for permission to use the image and logo etc , look at how many 'model' minis there are on the market all with the permission of BMW AG , no its easier to rant and find a few mouthpieces that don't understand the real world of commerce and the consequences of neglecting the issue . have a go at Sony music or Microsoft when they try to stop the 'poor little ' guy in Cambodia making copies of Windows or the latest U2 album . We live in the real World and its a rough place to survive in any business .
Gerard

[Step_7]

Yep, I agree that BMW are not alone in this and British Motor Heritage are just as vociferous in protecting IP and trademarks as them.

So I'll be waiting for the next issue of the MINI acessories catalogue with baited breath to see if there's a bigger range of MINI cushions and backpacks now that they've scared off the "competition"

[irlmin]

Yep, I agree that BMW are not alone in this and British Motor Heritage are just as vociferous in protecting IP and trademarks as them.

So I'll be waiting for the next issue of the MINI acessories catalogue with baited breath to see if there's a bigger range of MINI cushions and backpacks now that they've scared off the "competition"

I dont think it's as simple as extending the range of accessories when someone is 'scared off ' . its simply down to protecting the brand , now its someone using the name to make profit and don't tell me the person making the products to which You refer is doing this for Fun !!! next it may be a company in China or somewhere making 'lookalike ' Minis with the name MINI on them , I am afraid in the corporate world there are no 'grey areas' , anyway thats My opinion and I feel this is the only way it can be handled otherwise if a free for all with anyone using the name was allowed to continue look at the legal minefield that would be opened , example , someone buys one of these products produced by a 'cottage industry' and a child somewhere chokes on a component of it the Legal eagles have a look at who to sue and realise the name MINI is on the product ---$$$ signs light up and who do they sue yes MINI as they know the 'cottage industry ' owner won't have their 'pound of flesh ' and away we go into the world of litigation , I will say it again its a vicious world out there and it is simplistic to think BMW are targeting the 'poor little trader' with no good reason , the reasons are 8000 + jobs in UK and shareholder funds and if I was in charge I would also protect My investment any way I thought fit .anyway this forum is a place to have good humour banter and discuss forthcoming events and related topics and not to have 'swipes' at BMW or anyone else ,
G

[Owen]

Agreed Ger, would anyone have an objection to my locking this thread? I don't think any more good can come of it, and we've done all the education we can on the matter.

[Step_7]

I don't think that this thread deserves locking - I feel I have expressed my opinion in a considered and restrained manner. I expected this forum of all forums to approach this subject openly. Also please note my comment about the accessories range was followed by a smilie - this usually signifies an attempt at humor or sarcasm however poor the execution may be.

[ONED]

i wouldn't agree with locking the thread! :?

I know BMW are within their rights, and theres absolutely nothing we can do about it! :roll:

........but I would hate to see threads being locked to stamp out any debate or to curtails peoples opinions.

If people feel they would like to comment....then they should be able to, and when everyone who wants to comment - has commented.....then the thread will naturally run it's course and dissappear into the back cupboard of cyberspace

Barry

[Owen]

........but I would hate to see threads being locked to stamp out any debate or to curtails peoples opinions.

Barry, in all fairness, that's a bit harsh. No one said the thread was being locked to 'stamp out' debate, or to 'curtail people's opinions'. Step7 came in here with an ill-informed, but completely valid opinion on the closure of a company. His issues have been addressed by both Ger, and myself - so the thread served it's purpose. Anymore discussion becomed Off-Topic, and belongs in the Off-Topic forum.

Now this thread is spiralling into a negative vibe, which I'd more or less predicted, and suggested locking to avoid in the first place. Negativity is something we don't like at the MCOI, in any guise.

[Step_7]

"Ill-informed" - Go look on Minifinity if you want to see what ill-informed looks like. :?

[ONED]

I dont disagree with anything that has been said.

I just wouldn't like to see threads being Policed!

We all want a friendly atmosphere here and that the way it should stay!

but closing threads can actually go the other way!

Anyway, if anythig out of order is posted, it can still be modded! :wink:

..........and I'm sayin no more on the subject


Barry